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My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156621] Mon, 22 June 2009 12:39 Go to next message
RandyH  is currently offline RandyH
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Recently we opened a new office in another city.

This is office is part of our MPLS WAN and I can ping servers by name,
browse to servers, etc . . .

but in My Network Places or Network Neighborhood or Network whatever it's
called now...I can only see my servers and not any workstations.

I had forgotten to set up replication partners in WINS on the new DC and
once I did configure push/pull partners the workstations did finally show
up, but now after two weeks, they have disappeared again.

The servers are hard coded with IP/DNS/WINS.

The wrkstns are DHCP and DHCP is running from the cisco router

I wasn't sure about having DHCP on the router, and am wondering if we should
put back onto a windows server.

Why don't those wrkstns show up in My Network Places??

Tia,
RandyH
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156626 is a reply to message #156621] Mon, 22 June 2009 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aceman  is currently offline aceman  United States
Messages: 5816
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
news:8571F51A-D113-4CD1-907F-A02842A9D9CC@microsoft.com...
> Recently we opened a new office in another city.
>
> This is office is part of our MPLS WAN and I can ping servers by name,
> browse to servers, etc . . .
>
> but in My Network Places or Network Neighborhood or Network whatever it's
> called now...I can only see my servers and not any workstations.
>
> I had forgotten to set up replication partners in WINS on the new DC and
> once I did configure push/pull partners the workstations did finally show
> up, but now after two weeks, they have disappeared again.
>
> The servers are hard coded with IP/DNS/WINS.
>
> The wrkstns are DHCP and DHCP is running from the cisco router
>
> I wasn't sure about having DHCP on the router, and am wondering if we
> should put back onto a windows server.
>
> Why don't those wrkstns show up in My Network Places??
>
> Tia,
> RandyH


So just to get it straight, you have a DC/GC on the other side of the WAN,
along with a WINS server, correct?

If the browse list disappears, it may indicate a drop in the WAN link (due
to ISP?) or the DC on that end loses communication. This is because that DC
would be the subnet browse master. If it goes down, or has a communication
problem, the other workstations will all go into an election mode to figure
out who the new browser master will be. Also the browser service pulls data
from WINS to populate the browse list. If the browse master is having
problems, the list will not be upto date or empty.

Another possible cause is the DC at that location is multihomed. This surely
causes numerous AD and other problems, besides especially with the browse
list.

Also keep in mind, with any WINS server, the WINS server IP address in its
IP properties must only be the WINS server itself. You can't put another one
in there due to the way WINS works with self-registration. There's an
article indicating this as well, but I can't think of the KB# at this time.

No, I wouldn't recommend the Cisco or any other router, for a DHCP service
in an AD environment. There are other features that the router DHCP services
do nto support. I would suggest to put it on your DC with the following
Options:
003 - router IP
006 - internal DNS/DC, with the first one being the one in that site, second
at main location
015 - AD domain FQDN
044 - WINS IP address at that location as first, the second would be the one
at main location.
046 - 0x8 - this is the WINS node type

I hope that helps.

--
Ace

This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
confers no rights.

Please reply back to the newsgroup/forum to benefit from collaboration among
responding engineers, as well as to help others benefit from your
resolution.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCSA Messaging, MCT
Microsoft Certified Trainer
aceman@mvps.RemoveThisPart.org
http://twitter.com/acefekay

For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please
check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156634 is a reply to message #156626] Mon, 22 June 2009 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RandyH  is currently offline RandyH
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Thanks for the reply Ace (I was hoping you would pick this up)(this is that
office in Philly we just got done with)

By multihomed, does that also mean Teamed? I do have the nics teamed.

I did have two WINS servers listed in his WINS tab, and removed one to leave
one as 127.0.0.1

The DC's primary DNS is my DC here(Pitt), should I change that too? Primary
127.0.0.1 and Secondary my local dns server.

And yes, the DC is a GC and is running WINS/DNS, and after today DHCP ;-)

Are there issues I need to consider DHCP with multiple vlans? The wrkstn
vlan is on a different vlan than my "new" AD dhcp server.

For the DHCP options, we're also running Cisco Phones who also are dynamic .
.. should I disable bootp or anything to consider???

Thanks again!


"Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer]" <aceman@mvps.RemoveThisPart.org>
wrote in message news:OW96Q%2318JHA.1880@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
> news:8571F51A-D113-4CD1-907F-A02842A9D9CC@microsoft.com...
>> Recently we opened a new office in another city.
>>
>> This is office is part of our MPLS WAN and I can ping servers by name,
>> browse to servers, etc . . .
>>
>> but in My Network Places or Network Neighborhood or Network whatever it's
>> called now...I can only see my servers and not any workstations.
>>
>> I had forgotten to set up replication partners in WINS on the new DC and
>> once I did configure push/pull partners the workstations did finally show
>> up, but now after two weeks, they have disappeared again.
>>
>> The servers are hard coded with IP/DNS/WINS.
>>
>> The wrkstns are DHCP and DHCP is running from the cisco router
>>
>> I wasn't sure about having DHCP on the router, and am wondering if we
>> should put back onto a windows server.
>>
>> Why don't those wrkstns show up in My Network Places??
>>
>> Tia,
>> RandyH
>
>
> So just to get it straight, you have a DC/GC on the other side of the WAN,
> along with a WINS server, correct?
>
> If the browse list disappears, it may indicate a drop in the WAN link (due
> to ISP?) or the DC on that end loses communication. This is because that
> DC would be the subnet browse master. If it goes down, or has a
> communication problem, the other workstations will all go into an election
> mode to figure out who the new browser master will be. Also the browser
> service pulls data from WINS to populate the browse list. If the browse
> master is having problems, the list will not be upto date or empty.
>
> Another possible cause is the DC at that location is multihomed. This
> surely causes numerous AD and other problems, besides especially with the
> browse list.
>
> Also keep in mind, with any WINS server, the WINS server IP address in its
> IP properties must only be the WINS server itself. You can't put another
> one in there due to the way WINS works with self-registration. There's an
> article indicating this as well, but I can't think of the KB# at this
> time.
>
> No, I wouldn't recommend the Cisco or any other router, for a DHCP service
> in an AD environment. There are other features that the router DHCP
> services do nto support. I would suggest to put it on your DC with the
> following Options:
> 003 - router IP
> 006 - internal DNS/DC, with the first one being the one in that site,
> second at main location
> 015 - AD domain FQDN
> 044 - WINS IP address at that location as first, the second would be the
> one at main location.
> 046 - 0x8 - this is the WINS node type
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> --
> Ace
>
> This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
> confers no rights.
>
> Please reply back to the newsgroup/forum to benefit from collaboration
> among responding engineers, as well as to help others benefit from your
> resolution.
>
> Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCSA Messaging, MCT
> Microsoft Certified Trainer
> aceman@mvps.RemoveThisPart.org
> http://twitter.com/acefekay
>
> For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please
> check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156636 is a reply to message #156634] Mon, 22 June 2009 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aceman  is currently offline aceman  United States
Messages: 5816
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
news:3948D325-048A-417F-8244-E3813C92E802@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the reply Ace (I was hoping you would pick this up)(this is
> that office in Philly we just got done with)
>
> By multihomed, does that also mean Teamed? I do have the nics teamed.
>
> I did have two WINS servers listed in his WINS tab, and removed one to
> leave one as 127.0.0.1
>
> The DC's primary DNS is my DC here(Pitt), should I change that too?
> Primary 127.0.0.1 and Secondary my local dns server.
>
> And yes, the DC is a GC and is running WINS/DNS, and after today DHCP ;-)
>
> Are there issues I need to consider DHCP with multiple vlans? The wrkstn
> vlan is on a different vlan than my "new" AD dhcp server.
>
> For the DHCP options, we're also running Cisco Phones who also are dynamic
> . . should I disable bootp or anything to consider???
>
> Thanks again!
>

Hi Randy,

It's coming back to me now. I had to look back in the threads. So this is
the second office. Not too far from me, so to speak! I'm in the western
Philly suburbs about 30-45 minutes to center city, depending on traffic.

Teaming is fine. That's good. Multihoming is when each NIC is connected to
separate subnets or on the same wire with separate IPs. Teaming is the best
way to do it. You're cool there.

Remove the 127.0.0.1 address, and point it to itself for DNS. Make the
second entry the DC back in Pittsburgh.

In the WINS entry in the NIC, make sure it is only pointing to itself, no
other WINS servers.

No, you don;t have to disable BootP for the phone system. That's fine. The
Windows DHCP can handle that.

If there are multiple VLANs, then you may have to setup a DHCP Relay for
each VLAN subnet. That can get kind of tricky because RRAS would be needed
to be enabled to use DHCP Relay. You would relay it to the IPHelper or Relay
agent on the switch, which I am not familiar with how to do on the switch.
You would then need to setup a DHCP Scope for each VLAN subnet. This way the
IPHelper on the switch will send the request to the DHCP server, the DHCP
server recognizes the subnet it;s coming from, then offer a configuration
for that subnet to the helper, then the helper 'broadcasts' to the client on
the VLAN.

This brings up another issue. The VLANs don't have a server running on each
of their subnets, so the master browser for each subnet is changing
constantly because the election process is being invoked between machines on
each subnet. This is why the browse list is not always available. Curious,
how large are each VLANs? Is there any possibility to combine them into one
subnet for Philly? How many users at this location?

Ace
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156638 is a reply to message #156636] Mon, 22 June 2009 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RandyH  is currently offline RandyH
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Much to chew on here....I'm off tomorrow, but will get back to this...Thanks
again, Ace.


"Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer]" <aceman@mvps.RemoveThisPart.org>
wrote in message news:%23sEHwL38JHA.5780@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3948D325-048A-417F-8244-E3813C92E802@microsoft.com...
>> Thanks for the reply Ace (I was hoping you would pick this up)(this is
>> that office in Philly we just got done with)
>>
>> By multihomed, does that also mean Teamed? I do have the nics teamed.
>>
>> I did have two WINS servers listed in his WINS tab, and removed one to
>> leave one as 127.0.0.1
>>
>> The DC's primary DNS is my DC here(Pitt), should I change that too?
>> Primary 127.0.0.1 and Secondary my local dns server.
>>
>> And yes, the DC is a GC and is running WINS/DNS, and after today DHCP ;-)
>>
>> Are there issues I need to consider DHCP with multiple vlans? The wrkstn
>> vlan is on a different vlan than my "new" AD dhcp server.
>>
>> For the DHCP options, we're also running Cisco Phones who also are
>> dynamic . . should I disable bootp or anything to consider???
>>
>> Thanks again!
>>
>
> Hi Randy,
>
> It's coming back to me now. I had to look back in the threads. So this is
> the second office. Not too far from me, so to speak! I'm in the western
> Philly suburbs about 30-45 minutes to center city, depending on traffic.
>
> Teaming is fine. That's good. Multihoming is when each NIC is connected to
> separate subnets or on the same wire with separate IPs. Teaming is the
> best way to do it. You're cool there.
>
> Remove the 127.0.0.1 address, and point it to itself for DNS. Make the
> second entry the DC back in Pittsburgh.
>
> In the WINS entry in the NIC, make sure it is only pointing to itself, no
> other WINS servers.
>
> No, you don;t have to disable BootP for the phone system. That's fine. The
> Windows DHCP can handle that.
>
> If there are multiple VLANs, then you may have to setup a DHCP Relay for
> each VLAN subnet. That can get kind of tricky because RRAS would be needed
> to be enabled to use DHCP Relay. You would relay it to the IPHelper or
> Relay agent on the switch, which I am not familiar with how to do on the
> switch. You would then need to setup a DHCP Scope for each VLAN subnet.
> This way the IPHelper on the switch will send the request to the DHCP
> server, the DHCP server recognizes the subnet it;s coming from, then offer
> a configuration for that subnet to the helper, then the helper
> 'broadcasts' to the client on the VLAN.
>
> This brings up another issue. The VLANs don't have a server running on
> each of their subnets, so the master browser for each subnet is changing
> constantly because the election process is being invoked between machines
> on each subnet. This is why the browse list is not always available.
> Curious, how large are each VLANs? Is there any possibility to combine
> them into one subnet for Philly? How many users at this location?
>
> Ace
>
>
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156646 is a reply to message #156638] Mon, 22 June 2009 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aceman  is currently offline aceman  United States
Messages: 5816
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
news:855BE6B2-4AC3-4667-976F-A1436F3DC332@microsoft.com...
> Much to chew on here....I'm off tomorrow, but will get back to
> this...Thanks again, Ace.

Sounds good. Sorry to overwhelm you!

Oh, one thing I forgot, for the DHCP relay agent, which needs RRAS, I
wouldn't want you to install that on a DC, rather put DHCP on a member
server and install RRAS and the DHCP Relay agent, etc.

Enable The DHCP Relay Agent In Windows Server 2003 ~ Windows FanaticsIn
order for DHCP to be used with RAS, the DHCP Relay Agent must be configured
on the RAS server. When you configure the DHCP Relay Agent, clients still
....
www.lockergnome.com/windows/.../enable-the-dhcp-relay-agent- in-windows-server-2003/
- Similar

Relay Agent for DHCP - Tutorial to configure Windows Server 2003 ...Tutorial
showing examples of how to set up a DHCP Relay Agent in RRAS. Hop Count,
Conflict detection, Relay Agent options.
www.computerperformance.co.uk/.../DHCP_Relay_Agent.htm

Let me what you think...

Ace
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156743 is a reply to message #156646] Wed, 24 June 2009 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RandyH  is currently offline RandyH
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
it all came back to me . . .

DHCP relay..

I was going to go ahead and put the relay agent on the router rather than
use rras. . . .if that makes sense . ? . ?

Also, I am still wondering if at one point those wrkstns in the wrkstn vlan
showed up in the network browse list and now they don't, will having a
windows dhcp server solve this issue?

I "think" I read that in a vlan environment, each network will need his own
browse master - is that true?




"Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer]" <aceman@mvps.RemoveThisPart.org>
wrote in message news:%23104hF78JHA.1488@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
> news:855BE6B2-4AC3-4667-976F-A1436F3DC332@microsoft.com...
>> Much to chew on here....I'm off tomorrow, but will get back to
>> this...Thanks again, Ace.
>
> Sounds good. Sorry to overwhelm you!
>
> Oh, one thing I forgot, for the DHCP relay agent, which needs RRAS, I
> wouldn't want you to install that on a DC, rather put DHCP on a member
> server and install RRAS and the DHCP Relay agent, etc.
>
> Enable The DHCP Relay Agent In Windows Server 2003 ~ Windows FanaticsIn
> order for DHCP to be used with RAS, the DHCP Relay Agent must be
> configured on the RAS server. When you configure the DHCP Relay Agent,
> clients still ...
> www.lockergnome.com/windows/.../enable-the-dhcp-relay-agent- in-windows-server-2003/
> - Similar
>
> Relay Agent for DHCP - Tutorial to configure Windows Server 2003
> ...Tutorial showing examples of how to set up a DHCP Relay Agent in RRAS.
> Hop Count, Conflict detection, Relay Agent options.
> www.computerperformance.co.uk/.../DHCP_Relay_Agent.htm
>
> Let me what you think...
>
> Ace
>
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156752 is a reply to message #156743] Wed, 24 June 2009 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aceman  is currently offline aceman  United States
Messages: 5816
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
news:AD9EE4D0-1B0C-4615-8556-D6DD29B64244@microsoft.com...
> it all came back to me . . .

I'm starting to think on the terms of a 'senior moment,' as some of my
friends would say! :-)

>
> DHCP relay..
>
> I was going to go ahead and put the relay agent on the router rather than
> use rras. . . .if that makes sense . ? . ?

Yes, that should work. Just create the scope in Windows DHCP, and have the
IP helper, or relay, whatever it's called on the router, point to the
Windows box for the DHCP server.


>
> Also, I am still wondering if at one point those wrkstns in the wrkstn
> vlan showed up in the network browse list and now they don't, will having
> a windows dhcp server solve this issue?

No.

>
> I "think" I read that in a vlan environment, each network will need his
> own browse master - is that true?

Yep! That was part of what I was saying. If there are only workstations,
they are vying for browse master when an election is set out when the prior
browse master, a workstation, gets shut down while another machine is
requesting the browse list. A good practice is to make sure a server is on
that subnet that is on all the time, or create one large VLAN subnet that
encompasses a Windows server.

Ace
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156876 is a reply to message #156752] Thu, 25 June 2009 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RandyH  is currently offline RandyH
Messages: 9
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
So far so good....

we made the change about an hour ago, we put the relay agent on the router,
setup dhcp on the DC and machines started to grab IPs and then also started
to populate themselves on the network list...

Thank you again for all your help!!!

RandyH


"Ace Fekay [Microsoft Certified Trainer]" <aceman@mvps.RemoveThisPart.org>
wrote in message news:ux0uwnQ9JHA.1488@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> "RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
> news:AD9EE4D0-1B0C-4615-8556-D6DD29B64244@microsoft.com...
>> it all came back to me . . .
>
> I'm starting to think on the terms of a 'senior moment,' as some of my
> friends would say! :-)
>
>>
>> DHCP relay..
>>
>> I was going to go ahead and put the relay agent on the router rather than
>> use rras. . . .if that makes sense . ? . ?
>
> Yes, that should work. Just create the scope in Windows DHCP, and have the
> IP helper, or relay, whatever it's called on the router, point to the
> Windows box for the DHCP server.
>
>
>>
>> Also, I am still wondering if at one point those wrkstns in the wrkstn
>> vlan showed up in the network browse list and now they don't, will having
>> a windows dhcp server solve this issue?
>
> No.
>
>>
>> I "think" I read that in a vlan environment, each network will need his
>> own browse master - is that true?
>
> Yep! That was part of what I was saying. If there are only workstations,
> they are vying for browse master when an election is set out when the
> prior browse master, a workstation, gets shut down while another machine
> is requesting the browse list. A good practice is to make sure a server is
> on that subnet that is on all the time, or create one large VLAN subnet
> that encompasses a Windows server.
>
> Ace
>
>
>
>
Re: My Network Places - Across WAN [message #156889 is a reply to message #156876] Thu, 25 June 2009 10:47 Go to previous message
aceman  is currently offline aceman  United States
Messages: 5816
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"RandyH" <RHollaw@HOTmail.com> wrote in message
news:DD8A922F-CEB1-45E1-9C88-37D5A73C6EE1@microsoft.com...
> So far so good....
>
> we made the change about an hour ago, we put the relay agent on the
> router, setup dhcp on the DC and machines started to grab IPs and then
> also started to populate themselves on the network list...
>
> Thank you again for all your help!!!

That sounds great! Awesome!

Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

Cheers!

Ace
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