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Home » Microsoft » Windows Server » Active Directory » Backup of DC - windows 2003
Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157332] Mon, 06 July 2009 15:06 Go to next message
biren  is currently offline biren
Messages: 45
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi,

When I am taking a backup of a domain controller, should I also be backing
up the windows folder?

At the moment I am only taking a back of System State.

thanks
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157335 is a reply to message #157332] Mon, 06 July 2009 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phillip Windell  is currently offline Phillip Windell  United States
Messages: 526
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
It is only my opinion,...but doing just the SS is a waist of time.

It is being dangerously presumptious about what will fail (or not fail) on
the Server in a disaster.

Do a whole Full Backup with SS.

You can still selectively restore the SS only from the tape if that is ever
needed.

Keep in mind that a SS is worthless if it is a major Hardware Failure and
you cannot replace it with identical hardware. This is really really bad if
this is a DC and you don't run two DCs. Moral of the story,...tape backups
are not a replacement for running two DCs. I would feel more protected with
2 DCs no tape backup,...but the only sensible thing is to run 2 or more DCs
and do Full Tape Backups with SS as well.

--
Phillip Windell

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------


"biren" <biren@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F2BD26CD-9A3C-4CE9-9BFA-37CEC4A0881E@microsoft.com...
> Hi,
>
> When I am taking a backup of a domain controller, should I also be backing
> up the windows folder?
>
> At the moment I am only taking a back of System State.
>
> thanks
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157339 is a reply to message #157332] Mon, 06 July 2009 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marcin  is currently offline Marcin  United States
Messages: 273
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Philip brings up two valid points (issue with restoring System State backup
to a different hardware and the need for redundancy - with at least two
domain controllers per domain). I'd not however agree with his opinion
regarding usefulness of the System State backup. While it is true that
restoring it to a different hardware tends to be not only "challenging" but
also not fully supported by Microsoft, this is typically required only in
case of a domain-wide disaster. Otherwise (assuming that the same/identical
hardware is not available), the common course of action is to simply perform
AD cleanup and promote another domain controller as a replacement
(providing, of course, that there exists another domain controller in the
same domain). More importantly, System State plays crucial role in AD object
restore - at least as long as you haven't migrated to Windows Server 2008 R2
envirnoment...

hth
Marcin

"biren" <biren@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F2BD26CD-9A3C-4CE9-9BFA-37CEC4A0881E@microsoft.com...
> Hi,
>
> When I am taking a backup of a domain controller, should I also be backing
> up the windows folder?
>
> At the moment I am only taking a back of System State.
>
> thanks
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157340 is a reply to message #157339] Mon, 06 July 2009 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phillip Windell  is currently offline Phillip Windell  United States
Messages: 526
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I don't know what you disagree with,...sounds like we are in perfect
agreement to me.


--
Phillip Windell

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------


"Marcin" <marcin@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:uenU87n$JHA.4984@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Philip brings up two valid points (issue with restoring System State
> backup to a different hardware and the need for redundancy - with at least
> two domain controllers per domain). I'd not however agree with his opinion
> regarding usefulness of the System State backup. While it is true that
> restoring it to a different hardware tends to be not only "challenging"
> but also not fully supported by Microsoft, this is typically required only
> in case of a domain-wide disaster. Otherwise (assuming that the
> same/identical hardware is not available), the common course of action is
> to simply perform AD cleanup and promote another domain controller as a
> replacement (providing, of course, that there exists another domain
> controller in the same domain). More importantly, System State plays
> crucial role in AD object restore - at least as long as you haven't
> migrated to Windows Server 2008 R2 envirnoment...
>
> hth
> Marcin
>
> "biren" <biren@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:F2BD26CD-9A3C-4CE9-9BFA-37CEC4A0881E@microsoft.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> When I am taking a backup of a domain controller, should I also be
>> backing
>> up the windows folder?
>>
>> At the moment I am only taking a back of System State.
>>
>> thanks
>
>
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157342 is a reply to message #157340] Mon, 06 July 2009 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marcin  is currently offline Marcin  United States
Messages: 273
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
We probably are - I might have simply misinterpreted your statement about
System State backup being a waste of time. I guess you were referring to the
scenario where there is only a single domain controller in the domain -
correct?

cheers,
Marcin


"Phillip Windell" <philwindell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23s83f$n$JHA.4984@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I don't know what you disagree with,...sounds like we are in perfect
>agreement to me.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Marcin" <marcin@community.nospam> wrote in message
> news:uenU87n$JHA.4984@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Philip brings up two valid points (issue with restoring System State
>> backup to a different hardware and the need for redundancy - with at
>> least two domain controllers per domain). I'd not however agree with his
>> opinion regarding usefulness of the System State backup. While it is true
>> that restoring it to a different hardware tends to be not only
>> "challenging" but also not fully supported by Microsoft, this is
>> typically required only in case of a domain-wide disaster. Otherwise
>> (assuming that the same/identical hardware is not available), the common
>> course of action is to simply perform AD cleanup and promote another
>> domain controller as a replacement (providing, of course, that there
>> exists another domain controller in the same domain). More importantly,
>> System State plays crucial role in AD object restore - at least as long
>> as you haven't migrated to Windows Server 2008 R2 envirnoment...
>>
>> hth
>> Marcin
>>
>> "biren" <biren@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:F2BD26CD-9A3C-4CE9-9BFA-37CEC4A0881E@microsoft.com...
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> When I am taking a backup of a domain controller, should I also be
>>> backing
>>> up the windows folder?
>>>
>>> At the moment I am only taking a back of System State.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157346 is a reply to message #157332] Tue, 07 July 2009 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dileep.ponna.3uxujb  is currently offline dileep.ponna.3uxujb  United States
Messages: 1
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
It finally, I hope windows folder doesnt require. Restoration will be
done when u have OS in the server only. So I hope we doesnt require
Windows folder, and SS is enough it seems. Am I correct?


--
dileep.ponna
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Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157350 is a reply to message #157346] Tue, 07 July 2009 02:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
meiweb(nospam)  is currently offline meiweb(nospam)  Germany
Messages: 1307
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hello dileep.ponna,

As stated by Marcin and Philipp, better have the full server and the system
state. But to answer your question, yes, a system state is the minimum you
need to restore a DC. But this has limitations as already explained.

Best regards

Meinolf Weber
Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm


> It finally, I hope windows folder doesnt require. Restoration will be
> done when u have OS in the server only. So I hope we doesnt require
> Windows folder, and SS is enough it seems. Am I correct?
>
> http://forums.techarena.in
>
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157365 is a reply to message #157350] Tue, 07 July 2009 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dileep.ponna.3uy2vb  is currently offline dileep.ponna.3uy2vb  United States
Messages: 1
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Can u please let me know what do u mean by full backup of server, any
particular folders in DC, Eg - windows like that.


--
dileep.ponna
------------------------------------------------------------ ------------
dileep.ponna's Profile: http://forums.techarena.in/members/88349.htm
View this thread: http://forums.techarena.in/active-directory/1209098.htm

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Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157367 is a reply to message #157365] Tue, 07 July 2009 04:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
meiweb(nospam)  is currently offline meiweb(nospam)  Germany
Messages: 1307
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hello dileep.ponna,

Full system disk, mostly C:\ and of course additional data.

Best regards

Meinolf Weber
Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm


> Can u please let me know what do u mean by full backup of server, any
> particular folders in DC, Eg - windows like that.
>
> http://forums.techarena.in
>
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157381 is a reply to message #157342] Tue, 07 July 2009 09:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phillip Windell  is currently offline Phillip Windell  United States
Messages: 526
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"Marcin" <marcin@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:Ol0KFOo$JHA.4984@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> We probably are - I might have simply misinterpreted your statement about
> System State backup being a waste of time. I guess you were referring to
> the scenario where there is only a single domain controller in the
> domain - correct?

Yea, that's correct.
Sometimes I also make my statements a little "extra" emphatic to get people
to pay attention and maybe I give the wrong idea.

--
Phillip Windell

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157420 is a reply to message #157332] Tue, 07 July 2009 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pbbergs  is currently offline pbbergs  United States
Messages: 1024
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Do a full backup including system state, otherwise you will not be able to
recover the DC.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2008, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup This
posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"biren" <biren@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F2BD26CD-9A3C-4CE9-9BFA-37CEC4A0881E@microsoft.com...
> Hi,
>
> When I am taking a backup of a domain controller, should I also be backing
> up the windows folder?
>
> At the moment I am only taking a back of System State.
>
> thanks
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157434 is a reply to message #157420] Tue, 07 July 2009 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
biren  is currently offline biren
Messages: 45
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi,

I have read this thread and now I am confused!

WE do have two domain controllers in the same physical location. All the
servers are windows 2003.

Let us say, we had a fire and everything got burnt. Am i able to recreate
the domain based on System State backup alone?

I would reinstall windows 2003 (on a new server, presumably), and then
restore SS based on the backup.

In this case do I need c:\Windows folder to be backed up?

Why do I need the whole of C:\

when its just a pure domain controller?


Thanks for your input.

Hope this clarifies the picture.
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157447 is a reply to message #157434] Tue, 07 July 2009 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Phillip Windell  is currently offline Phillip Windell  United States
Messages: 526
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
You ...need...the..whole...thing.
What good is the Windows folder without the rest of the drive's contents?
You don't want to restore a Registry full of Application Settings for
Applications that no longer exist on the machine becuase you didn't install
them along with it (ex. C:\Program Files\*)

Full Backup,...*everything* on the drive,...plus the System State

It needs to be the exact same identical hardware,...or at least the same
model of Drive Controllers,...of the thing will "blue screen" on you when
you try to start it up. If you get really, really, really, really lucky it
might boot from different hardware,...but it is a "crap shoot",...and as
someone already said,...MS does not support restores to "different
hardware".

To protect from a fire keep the two DCs in different buildings (or far far
away from each other if it is a very large building) so you won't lose both
at the same time in the same fire. 90% of your ability to recover from a
disaster comes from *not* loosing both DCs at the same time.

The primary purpose, as far as I am concerned, of the Tape Backups is to
protect against *software disasters* when the hardware is still intact.


--
Phillip Windell

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------


"biren" <biren@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:4004B217-4AAF-41C8-AAA6-6D23D1F64FC3@microsoft.com...
> Hi,
>
> I have read this thread and now I am confused!
>
> WE do have two domain controllers in the same physical location. All the
> servers are windows 2003.
>
> Let us say, we had a fire and everything got burnt. Am i able to recreate
> the domain based on System State backup alone?
>
> I would reinstall windows 2003 (on a new server, presumably), and then
> restore SS based on the backup.
>
> In this case do I need c:\Windows folder to be backed up?
>
> Why do I need the whole of C:\
>
> when its just a pure domain controller?
>
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Hope this clarifies the picture.
>
>
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157451 is a reply to message #157447] Tue, 07 July 2009 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pbbergs  is currently offline pbbergs  United States
Messages: 1024
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
To be honest if I had to do a recovery of a dc and I have a fully working
partner, I don't even bother to do the recovery. I flatten the dc, cleanup
metadata and repromote a new dc.

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCTS, MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2008, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
Microsoft's Thrive IT Pro of the Month - June 2009

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup This
posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Phillip Windell" <philwindell@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5HDO9y$JHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> You ...need...the..whole...thing.
> What good is the Windows folder without the rest of the drive's contents?
> You don't want to restore a Registry full of Application Settings for
> Applications that no longer exist on the machine becuase you didn't
> install them along with it (ex. C:\Program Files\*)
>
> Full Backup,...*everything* on the drive,...plus the System State
>
> It needs to be the exact same identical hardware,...or at least the same
> model of Drive Controllers,...of the thing will "blue screen" on you when
> you try to start it up. If you get really, really, really, really lucky
> it might boot from different hardware,...but it is a "crap shoot",...and
> as someone already said,...MS does not support restores to "different
> hardware".
>
> To protect from a fire keep the two DCs in different buildings (or far far
> away from each other if it is a very large building) so you won't lose
> both at the same time in the same fire. 90% of your ability to recover
> from a disaster comes from *not* loosing both DCs at the same time.
>
> The primary purpose, as far as I am concerned, of the Tape Backups is to
> protect against *software disasters* when the hardware is still intact.
>
>
> --
> Phillip Windell
>
> The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or
> Microsoft,
> or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "biren" <biren@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:4004B217-4AAF-41C8-AAA6-6D23D1F64FC3@microsoft.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have read this thread and now I am confused!
>>
>> WE do have two domain controllers in the same physical location. All the
>> servers are windows 2003.
>>
>> Let us say, we had a fire and everything got burnt. Am i able to recreate
>> the domain based on System State backup alone?
>>
>> I would reinstall windows 2003 (on a new server, presumably), and then
>> restore SS based on the backup.
>>
>> In this case do I need c:\Windows folder to be backed up?
>>
>> Why do I need the whole of C:\
>>
>> when its just a pure domain controller?
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>>
>> Hope this clarifies the picture.
>>
>>
>
>
Re: Backup of DC - windows 2003 [message #157452 is a reply to message #157451] Tue, 07 July 2009 14:56 Go to previous message
Phillip Windell  is currently offline Phillip Windell  United States
Messages: 526
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"Paul Bergson [MVP-DS]" <pbbergs@no_spammsn.com> wrote in message
news:uuO63Hz$JHA.1352@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> To be honest if I had to do a recovery of a dc and I have a fully working
> partner, I don't even bother to do the recovery. I flatten the dc,
> cleanup metadata and repromote a new dc.

Exactly Paul,..same here. I do keep weekly backups of the DCs just because
it is smart to do so, but there is a good chance I'd get by without them.
We are also looking at how we might relocate one DC so that I wouldn't loose
both in a fire, but we haven't gotten that done just yet.

--
Phillip Windell

The views expressed, are my own and not those of my employer, or Microsoft,
or anyone else associated with me, including my cats.
-----------------------------------------------------
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