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Home » Microsoft » Windows Server » Windows Server General Help » File Attributes a real stumper
File Attributes a real stumper [message #164340] Sat, 20 June 2009 18:40 Go to next message
James Robertson  is currently offline James Robertson
Messages: 3
Registered: June 2009
Junior Member
Here is the issue. I have a file that is a pain in the filesystem. It is a
Hidden System file that does not belong there. A user downloaded the file
and it has been there ever since. You cannot change the attributes with
attrib as it stated that the file is not found. I have run chsdsk and it is
still there. Can someone assist me in how to get rid of this blemish?
Thanks alot.
Re: File Attributes a real stumper [message #164341 is a reply to message #164340] Sat, 20 June 2009 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
meiweb(nospam)  is currently offline meiweb(nospam)  Germany
Messages: 1307
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hello James,

Use a disk like BartPe or similar and start machine, then try to delete it
from there.

Best regards

Meinolf Weber
Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm


> Here is the issue. I have a file that is a pain in the filesystem.
> It is a Hidden System file that does not belong there. A user
> downloaded the file and it has been there ever since. You cannot
> change the attributes with attrib as it stated that the file is not
> found. I have run chsdsk and it is still there. Can someone assist
> me in how to get rid of this blemish? Thanks alot.
>
Re: File Attributes a real stumper [message #164342 is a reply to message #164340] Sat, 20 June 2009 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dave Patrick  is currently offline Dave Patrick  United States
Messages: 560
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Or you can delete it from the recovery console command line.


--

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect
Re: File Attributes a real stumper [message #164343 is a reply to message #164340] Sat, 20 June 2009 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aceman  is currently offline aceman  United States
Messages: 5816
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"James Robertson" <JamesRobertson@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:ED1B1295-5684-4DA1-A7C4-9DFAAD522724@microsoft.com...
> Here is the issue. I have a file that is a pain in the filesystem. It is
> a
> Hidden System file that does not belong there. A user downloaded the file
> and it has been there ever since. You cannot change the attributes with
> attrib as it stated that the file is not found. I have run chsdsk and it
> is
> still there. Can someone assist me in how to get rid of this blemish?
> Thanks alot.


James,

Apparently the file may have illegal ASCII characters in it that Windows
doesn't recognize. Windows is based on that ANSI character set, or it may
contain reserved windows names, such as 'com', 'lpt', or others. I've seen
these type of files created using FTP, which supports ASCII, and an FTP
server supports ASCII, and Windows will create it from FTP, but when you try
to view it, or delete it, you'll have problems. Same if it was downloaded
through HTTP.

If you know where the file is, and you know part of the name, you may be
able to delete it. You can follow Meinolf's suggestions, or you may want to
read my blog on these type of files and what your options are with deleting
them.

Let me know if this helped.

============================================================ ==========================================
To delete those undeletable files and folders:

A little background on undeletable files and folders:

I've seen these in the past regarding 'pubbed' FTP servers by software, game
and movie users that find open FTP servers. They would upload their illegal
software to the FTP servers they find, but they would name the files and the
folder they create with extended characters and symbols that FTP supports
but Windows does not directly support (ASCII characters), as well as create
a very deep file structure with these extended unsupported ASCII characters,
and/or file names with these characters that are greater than 256
characters. Windows directly supports ANSI characters. However, although
Windows supports ASCII characters indirectly, it is not supported directly
through the Windows Explorer GUI or the command line. Therefore this
prevents admins from getting to them or deleting them, nor delete them. In
the older NT4 days, you could install the POSIX support tools (to support
UNIX based commands and using ASCII characters) to read and remove them, but
that no longer applies with Windows 2000 and newer. However Windows still
provides POSIX support but not directly. They can be deleted by using
specific commands, but you just have to know the commands!

Also, if it was an FTP created folder and files, and the size shows zero
bytes, yet you know it is much larger, then it's also likely the files are
using an alternate data stream which would explain why their file size
appears as zero bytes.

So the other factor, as mentioned, is if the file, folder name, and/or
number of child folders is greater than 256 characters. Many operating
system limits are based on the i386 addressable 32bit architecture, such as
the number of useres that can access a share, which is 4.3 billion objects.
It also depends on the drive and if an app can read it. Many programs also
expect a limit of 256 objects (characters, paths, bytes, etc), maybe even
the deltree command is limited, however NTFS formatted drives can go beyond
the 256 objects.

Is the drive NTFS?

Therefore, not being able to delete them is caused by the factors above,
special or extended ASCII characters, trailing spaces, trailing dots
(periods) or reserved names in the folders, such as com, lpt, etc, such as
when a machine gets 'pubbed' into an FTP site where the 'pubsters' will
create these deep paths and using reserved names to prevent the admin from
deleting them. If you've found someone accidentally created such files or
subfolders with these characters, it will give you headaches to remove them.
With an FTP app it's easy to read and remove them, because FTP uses ASCII
characters, such as what POSIX uses, however WIndows uses ANSI and cannot
translate the folders. IN this case, you can setup a local FTP service, then
use an FTP app to connect to your own machine, then you wil be able to read
and delete the files and folders. That is only one option, which many
adminstrators are reluctant to do.

Try the following:

Removing folder examples:

Assuming the first folder is the numeral "1" on D drive (and use the quotes
if you have problems and watch the required periods if the command uses it):

rm -r "//D/1"

RD \\.\c=D:\1

RmDir \\.\D:\1 /s /q

RmDir \\.\C:\YourFTP_ROOT's_PATH\COM1 /s /q

C:\>cd inetpub\ftproot
C:\Inetpub\ftproot>rd /s /q \\?\c:\inetpub\ftproot
NOTE - The syntax is literal, do not substitue or remove the question mark
(?), change only the path.


Removing files examples:

Note: In the following examples, if the filename contains symbollic,
extended or other characters, enter what you can and wildcard the rest or
use file completion or use a full wildcard.

DEL \\.\c:\somedir\filename.

DEL \\.\c:\somedir\lpt

DEL \\.\c:\somedir\aux

DEL \\.\c:\somedir\com

etc


Read the following references for more information and specific instructions
if the above doesn't work for you.

How to Remove Files with Reserved Names in Windows:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;Q120716

You cannot delete a file or a folder on an NTFS file system volume:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320081

Cannot Delete Files or Folders with Extended Characters:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/131702

Here's how to create a locked folder with FTP:
http://www.madchat.org/coding/w32nt.rev/dirnt.htm

Here's how to delete them:
How to Remove Files with Reserved Names in Windows
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/120716
============================================================ ==========================================

--
Ace

This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees and
confers no rights.

Please reply back to the newsgroup/forum to benefit from collaboration among
responding engineers, as well as to help others benefit from your
resolution.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCSA Messaging, MCT
Microsoft Certified Trainer
aceman@mvps.RemoveThisPart.org
http://twitter.com/acefekay

For urgent issues, you may want to contact Microsoft PSS directly. Please
check http://support.microsoft.com for regional support phone numbers.
RE: File Attributes a real stumper [message #164405 is a reply to message #164340] Mon, 22 June 2009 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
James Robertson  is currently offline James Robertson
Messages: 3
Registered: June 2009
Junior Member
Thanks all for the replys. I am looking into making a UBCD3WIN disk to see
if that can delete those files. Thanks again for pointing me in the correct
direction. I will post if it works.

"James Robertson" wrote:

> Here is the issue. I have a file that is a pain in the filesystem. It is a
> Hidden System file that does not belong there. A user downloaded the file
> and it has been there ever since. You cannot change the attributes with
> attrib as it stated that the file is not found. I have run chsdsk and it is
> still there. Can someone assist me in how to get rid of this blemish?
> Thanks alot.
Re: File Attributes a real stumper [message #164408 is a reply to message #164405] Mon, 22 June 2009 15:53 Go to previous message
aceman  is currently offline aceman  United States
Messages: 5816
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"James Robertson" <JamesRobertson@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:CED7A625-2DCD-480A-850A-9FFA254C25BB@microsoft.com...
> Thanks all for the replys. I am looking into making a UBCD3WIN disk to
> see
> if that can delete those files. Thanks again for pointing me in the
> correct
> direction. I will post if it works.



Looking forward to your post!

Cheers!

Ace
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